The Grand Model Of Psychological Evolution
By Leo Gura - August 31, 2015 | 94 Comments
The Graves and Spiral Dynamics developmental psychology model
Laurence says: Hey Leo just wanted to say the email was kinda in complete, aka no content
CHRISTINA says: Absolutely love your videos and what you have to say
Amanda says: Hey Leo,
Just wanted to let you know when I got the email for this video. It just contains a residential address in Las Vegas. Just checking to see if that was what you meant to send out or if there was a possible hack.
Thanks,
Amanda
Marisa says: Leo, I love how long and content rich your videos are! Thanks for condensing 25(and countless other) hours of content into producing this video.
Elton says: Amazing video bro, blew my mind off… Thanks a lot, the amount of time I Meditate is directly proportional to the time interval after which I require to pause your video.. I am going to have to see it again
Robert says: Leo,
this is actualy the same video as Maslow’s hierarchy which you made about 1 month ago.
Robert
Galina says: Leo,
You are not “orange”, please do not say this. It contradicts your teaching, I do not want to agree with it. You are above this.
Paz says: Oh wow, not so long ago I emailed your team asking if you could recommend sources for more material about the Graves model/spiral dynamics as I had heard of the concept in one of your videos and was fascinated by it. I never really got a response, well I did, a standard “Leo doesn’t have time to give life advice via email”, my request as such wasn’t answered so off I went on to do my own research.
And now you are doing a whole video about it, yes! Although I realise it had nothing to do with my email, but thank you for revisiting the subject in more details
Asaiah Powers says: Dear leo, In maslows hierarcy of needs is sex and some kind of emotional connection a psychological need? Do we actually need that stuff? I mean if I could I could just isolate myself from society and survive that way. Its really hard for me to see feelings as a need.
Leo Gura says: Well, just try to go without sex or masturbation for a few years and report back to us how well you did.
Uldis says: At first I thought I am red, cause I hate laws and hierarchy, but then I realized I must be tribal stage cause I always put interests of my gang (family, company, …) in the first place although I hate that, but just couldn’t do anything about it.
It makes sense, cause blue, orange and green (that is all people I know) seems plain stupid and annoying to me
Uldis says: Hmmm, but I hate red too, what the hell ? I am totally confused.
Kevin says: Good work! Good useful model.
Asaiah Powers says: I consider myself orange i do like stimuli,I’m interested in electronics & robotics in technology yet dont i need to experience RED before all this I remember being blue I used to have a firm belief in chirstianity that we have to sacrifice our desires, what we want for others.But I dont remember wanting to dominate everyone the group so whats going on here,so confused?
Natasha says: Love your videos. Watch them and learn from them every week, even though not always get to comment. I left my religious beliefs about 2 months ago, disillusionment almost kind of happened overnight. Life is so much more enjoyable now, things just started falling into their places. Finally freedom and peace. Your material played a huge part. Thank you, Leo!
me says: Sometimes im able to see so many perspectives to a situation but i get very frustrated about it. Im not sure if thats me evolving slightly into yellow (perspectives) on the relationship axis or if thats totally orange (as in, I don’t want to realize that I can be wrong too and whats the point of all these perspectives when they dont solve anything – seeing another point of view doesn’t always bring a solution)
Paz says: Right, I have watched it now. Unfortunately it didn’t cover any more that I had already found in my research, however, it is a good overview of the model for those who have never come across it. I am looking forward to further videos on the subject, Leo.
With regards to who fits in yellow, from my personal observations and experience, it seems to be people who have “awakened”. However, I have also observed that a lot of awakened people consider themselves enlightened very quickly and would sit themselves squarely in Turquoise.
I did a little experiment presenting the subject in an awakened group I contribute to (on Adyashanti’s teachings) for their views on the concept, and the first comment I got “I’m glad to see there are mainly Turquoise here”, which made me smile a bit.
From my observation, however much they consider themselves in that level, I see very little evidence of any actions taken to make the world a better one for all from them and all their wisdom. They seem happier to just sit in their “enlightenment”, share sayings they receive from their teachers, rejoice they have found the light etc than actually do anything with it. I wouldn’t even class them as yellow because they can actually be quite close minded when it comes to others and their beliefs. A bit patronising too maybe. My observations, albeit limited, make me a bit concerned that the spiral might be going in the wrong direction. Still, it’s early days for the second tier, only time will tell.
Anyone interested in the concept, here is a link I came across in my research which explains it quite clearly too: vievolve.com/values-systems-4/
Mary says: So all signs point to you being in a retreat! Gooooood luck there Leo.
Nihi says: Good video. Interesting. However, I strongly disagree that you can really put people and society into those colors. You have to see the shades on this model itself as well. Look at he following:
It is definitely not granted that humanity will not go back. At the moment, ‘everything is fine’, but there are huge problems in front of uf. We are and will do stuff from which the consequences may destroy us completely. Or put us back where there is only naked survivalism (and some small tribes with it). You ask open-mindedness. This is it. This model is completely idealistic that everything will be worked out.
So, to conclude, I see parts of all of those colors in my own psyche. So I would put myself as kinda… Brown. (No, not a nazi, but you know, this ugly color when you mix all colors togoether.
Oh and to conclude: Is the purple less happy than the orange or the blue? So, why exactly is one above the other? Leo said those stages are not black and white and I completely agree, so why does he keep saying ‘one is above the other’?
me says: He didn’t say that one is better than the other, just that one comes after the other. I believe that’s what he meant by above
Elton says: Evolution.
Ivan Stoyanov says: Leo,
I was wondering where on this spectrum we would put Adolf Hitler and national socialism? What about Joseph Stalin and communism? Are both of them blue or red?
About the turquoise stage – aren’t enlightened zen masters and yogis in this stage?
Leo Gura says: Nazis and Communists were prototypical Blue. They behave like beehives. They were not regular criminals or even dictators. They have a very firm sense of order and hierarchy. They were elected democratically in many cases.
Zen Masters are generally quite Blue. Zen is a very rigid and traditionalist system. Enlightenment does not mean you’re automatically Turquoise or even Green.
Ivan Stoyanov says: Leo,
Thanks for your response. Would you be able to give an example of someone who is in the turquoise stage?
How can we have someone who is not enlightened be above someone else who is enlightened on this scale? I though that enlightenment is the highest stage of psychological development that one can achieve.
Leo Gura says: Enlightenment is not the same thing as psychological development. Enlightenment is a specific kind of insight. This insight can be had by anyone at any time. It’s best to think of them as independent variables, although there is some dependency.
Tram Pozzi says: Hey Leo . Just want to let you know you did very good to a lot of people have a better idea self help . It really help me to find peace on my own for a short time ! Thanks a lot .
liz says: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Paula says: Hi Leo, Great video, excellent material as always, cant get enough of it.
Thanks for all the insights.
P.
dear leo
thank you a lot! there is no such thing like lower and higher self, this is just a perspective out of the yellow bubble. there is neither me nor a you really. you have this wonderfull turquoise video: the shocking truth. therein you skip the idea of being a body or a person. this allows you, not even allows you, it does not exist such thing, this sets you free to not being identified with any concept. i feel deeply inspired with your guidance. it helps to see and transform my coloured parts. some are even grey when i got identfied with “instincts”.
michael
Samsara says: Thank you for this video Leo, I really enjoyed it. My dream is to make it to white (that encompasses the full colour spectrum). Pure consciousness, where the pendulum stops swinging and sits, at rest in the middle. I’m sure to get there we have to stop focusing our attention outwards and start looking within. “Know thyself”.
Leslie says: Great video, big thank you for making this, how did you learn building argument this way ? Some thoughts on the topic, it seems to me that we are not in one colour but more like shifting constantly from one to the other. We can ,it seems to me, be totally happy in the stage that we are in, so there is not really a need to move from one to an other stage , and as last observation, how then can we help ourselves or even better, others, to move from one stage to the next?
I have been watching Many of your video’s and was waiting for it to move from the individual to the society at Large.. Looks like my wish came true.
Elton says: i am red don’t go about killing people really but it takes place in the mind , whenever there is a show of dominance by someone else i get triggered and in my mind i am trying to gain power
Elton says: but why am i looking down at blue ?
Leo Gura says: Red of course would look down on Blue. But you’re probably more Orange than Red. If you were really Red, you’d probably be a criminal.
Elton says: I am red I am a criminal who did not get caught.. Breaking traffic lights, lying, stealing, consumption of illegal substances how easily I believed you when you told me that I was orange… Because the ego tricks you to believe you are higher.. You being orange now makes sense because many organisations and buiseness are red..
Elton says: orange is what i want to make real , 80% of green i posses maybe ..
Hasan says: Dear Leo,
I recently watched your video about Maslows hierarchy. In that video, you touched the idea that many of international conflicts can be explained using Maslows hierarchy model. This idea very much sparked my interest. I am so pleased that you released this video and explained in more detail these physiological stages. This video clarified many questions I had after watching your video about Maslows hierarchy. BTW, I think your videos are not long. I personally have a long way to go in this journey …
Your obviously a very bright deep person leo, but why did you feel you had to belittle republicans? Fact republicans are more giving then liberals, Google that! I personally see liberals at the root of everything that is wrong! Why leo did you have to mention such matters, I’ll still watch you and think your the shit but your view on republicans as a whole is just not true
Steve says: Leo. First time in 2 years of listening that i really wanted to comment. This has helped me understand the endless struggle i have when talking with others and why i find it hard to explain my perspective to others and the hostility i receive when i try. Thank you. .
Leo Gura says: Indeed, this model is great for explaining that.
Sylvie says: Ia Orana Leo,
Thank you for your sharing. Would you have the transcript? I helps a lot.
I am looking forward to your new input on this specific sujbect, which I hope will continue to go deeply in the topic.
Keep up the good work!
Vladimir says: Thank you very much for the video!
What do you think about colors of guys like Tony Robbins or Brendon Burchard? I’m thinking of Tony as a mixture of orange, green and yellow.
And maybe yellow is the new blue (“truth of relativism”) which helps to survive in upcoming global changes.
Leo Gura says: They both seem quite Orange with some Green thrown in. One of things I don’t like about Tony Robbins is that he’s a bit too materialistic and achievement-oriented for my taste. My opinion anyways. I don’t really know them.
Vladimir says: If you grab Personal Power II or Get The Edge, you will hear “Orange! Orange! Orange!”. But some products like Human Elevation project or Robbins-Madanes Training seems more Green (and maybe a liiittle bit Yellow). His coachee Paul Tudor Jones II talks Green in his recent TED Talk “Why we need to rethink capitalism” though I do not know about real “Greenness” of those “just capitalism”.
Thank you again for sharing this super stuff!
Michael says: I think wild macaws are purple, domesticated macaws are red and educated/well trained domesticated macaws are blue.
Michael says: I was green and then started transitioning to yellow about a year ago and a week or so ago that transitioning went further. I think I’m still transitioning but I’m getting quite firmly into yellow. I’m not completely yellow yet though. I realise now that my yellow experiences have been in preparation for turquoise. Looking back, I have memories of being in orange, blue and even red but my red memories are more faded as I was in early primary school then.
Open-mindedness has been one of my central principles for a while, and each transition has helped me to understand this principle better and apply it more effectively to my psychology and my life. If I struggle to appreciate another culture or genre of music, I’ll make deliberate efforts to learn about them and open my mind to them. This has happened most effectively in yellow as I am finding myself opening my mind to music I previously shunned or avoided.
Leo Gura says: One good rule of thumb for gauging if you’re truly Yellow is to ask yourself how much of your day is occupied thinking about life as a set of systems and how these systems could be manipulated to solve significant world problems. Yellows think about that kind of thing incessantly.
Michael says: I spend a lot of my time thinking about my life and how I can better myself, I also have a great curiosity for the world which I have had since I was very young which I deliberately preserved and pursued. I never really pursued spirituality as seriously as I could have until recently when my understanding and determination grew.
I started noticing in late high school (UK) that I was progressing through different levels of psychological development and I wanted to develop myself further, this awareness of higher levels has grown a lot recently as I contemplate better and more often and have a more open mind. I often think about how political and philosophical systems and systems in physics work, trying to bring those systems together into a bigger picture, seeing if it works and what needs to be tweaked and then think about how they could be used to create positive change or create a better understanding of the wonderful thing called life. I love the tradition surrounding the Palace of Westminster (probably a European nostalgia thing) but if I feel it could be improved then I would support an improvement, even if the current system works and I currently believe it to be the case that it needs improving. I believe in a government ruled by the wise, I have done for a while. Wisdom is a combination of knowledge and good, clear judgement. However, I am very aware of the problems of the world and I can see straight through the ‘orange’ and ‘blue’ words of the conservative party which other people might be convinced by.
As I learned about philosophy both by self-teaching and also through studying as I like to think a lot about reality I would agree with the second yes. When we were studying and discussing abortion in class I would be trying to develop my opinion and understanding of the issue. Throughout my childhood and now I am often in my head thinking and being a philosopher. I like it when it gets deep and complicated. I enjoy learning about different perspectives, religions and cultures and having nuance debates. In that sense I’m very open minded, now I’m trying to be more open minded in music. I’m also trying to become more open minded in terms of values as I tend to expect the high values from other people that I expect of myself, and this is keeping me in Tier 1.
The knowledge and intellectual understanding that the only absolute truth is the one spoken of in enlightenment and everything else is this fascinating set of nuanced perspectives is one that has grown slowly and finally arisen quite recently. I still think this truth has a bit more sinking in to do though. One of my goals since I was young was to gain an understanding of how the world works. I really enjoy learning about science, especially physics and certain areas of ornithology, but I prefer the bits that allow for more imagination and are more difficult to understand such as quantum physics and my dream is to have a real impact on the avian world, a dream I am already working hard to pursue.
I am becoming increasingly aware that there are higher states than where I am and I have this deep and powerful drive inside me to pursue and attain those states. I would say that my work in yellow is in preparation for turquoise, as that is what all the understanding and personal development would be for, to create action and results found in turquoise. I still need to work into getting into yellow fully before I start trying to understand turqoise though.
I used to want to be very successful for the sake of success and being remembered, now I want to work for the benefit of the world as I realised that I am just one person and why should I be remembered before other people. I am not interested in being rich for money’s sake, but merely to have enough to get into the elite class so that my work can have have greater awareness and so greater impact which would be over 100k (GBP). By progressing in the class system I can see that my impact can be greater, especially if I join the house of lords. However, in order to do that effectively, I know I have to work on myself.
I also have done volunteering with the RSPB, which is active protection of wildlife even though the RSPB itself is green as it hasn’t noticed there are higher states for the psyche to attain. I could already see that green doesn’t have enough effective action. For example, Greenpeace patrol the seas trying to stop things like the shark fin industry, but as they have no authority they cannot actually do anything about it and so generate negligible results.
I also can go towards orange in my lower self. Which is why I am already taking notes of the Lower vs Higher Self video before taking notes on the other videos. I might also wait for transcripts of the newer videos before taking notes on them. I’m really looking forward to your video on eliminating beliefs. I also need more time to understand the lower stages before I can progress further into yellow so I can be more open minded and less judgemental of them. I am at the point now where I am getting rid of my last dogmas, some being harder to solve than others and some less obvious than others, but I have a solution, open mindedness and patience. This is a technique that has been useful in the past and I hope to continue using and developing it unless a more effective method appears.
I have a complex and intellectual mind. The complexity is a system made to protect my mind from being overloaded or corrupted through careful cycle of observation. Although I need to develop mindfulness to bring that observation to a more reliable and effective conscious state. I have been to a Buddhism and meditation course which was six weeks long, one evening a week which helped remind of some of the basics.
Would you say my positioning is about right. Orange when in my lower self, but most of the time green going into yellow?
Michael says: I have just discovered a dogma that I had that can be put into words along the lines of ‘mainstream taste is not me’. I’m already taking the first steps to dissolve it.
I have also found some more orange parts of my psyche such as the desire for the UK to keep the Trident programme to maintain the UK’s ability to influence the world. I realise now that the UK can have a more positive impact by being the first major power to get rid of their nukes and set an example to the world. The money going into renewing Trident could then go into the welfare system.
Michael says: The thing I said to describe the dogma was so oversimplified it became inaccurate in terms of how people might interpret it. Basically, I don’t like some of the fashion or music that a lot of people my age like. I have developed my own taste over time but I am opening my mind to other ideas.
Michael says: I forgot to say. Thanks for the advice, it really means a lot. I am currently in the research stage to see where I am and where I can go further in seeing life in systems. Thinking about how systems can be used to improve the world is something I’m more familiar with. I will continue to work on that too.
Mary says: Some people go back to religion (From orange to blue). The materialism and hollowness in their life cause them too. Also I’m not sure if no society has ever regrown or not.
I can’t really say having a religion is lower than orange. Having a religion doesn’t make everyone as dogmatic.
Also from my own experience, I can say that before when I had a strong belief in God, I felt lot better, stronger. That sth has my back no matter what. I was more successful. I was half blue, half orange. (And I was a democrat) Now I’m just not sure of anything. I don’t have a belief that a god exists or not. I’m just neutral. Most of my ideas about reality has changed. I think a lot different from my friends and family. I’m not so sure about things anymore. And I don’t feel the strength I used to. I’m weaker. Moreover, in my life I have experienced quite a lot of problems this year, like social anxiety and problems in my studying I had never before to this unbelievable extent.
Mary says: I almost feel like snapping back. I know I can’t change everything. But at least I can get back my belief in God.
Leo Gura says: Your belief in God isn’t going to help you grow one bit. Drop it and have faith that greater things await. They certainly do. A belief is just that: a silly figment of one’s imagination. The real deal is what you want, and you can’t get that so long as you’re clinging to a belief.
Kirk says: I was in tears listening to this one. How beautiful this is! Words are not adequate to describe that emotional joy of expanding your knowledge on the world.
I LOVE this!
Thank you, Leo the Great!
Stefan says: You killed it again leo, Your the man.
Stefan says: I dare to say I am mix of green,orange,yellow and turquoise. with a emphasis on yellow and turquoise. Definitely need to nurture that nature.
Maria says: Green being better than orange, doesn’t it imply daydreaming being better than working. And in order to ascend to green do we have to abandon work and start fantasizing.
Leo Gura says: No
C says: Dear Leo,
Thank you so much for creating this video. This explains everything and what’s going on in my head. If it wasn’t for your videos I would never be able to sympathize with others and their views and see all truths in religion and cultures. I would not be at the level that I am at now if it wasn’t for you.
I do not hate others for their views, I sympathize and understand, but I know that my caring to help others is not enough for people to change, that the river runs so much deeper. When you told me in other videos to look at all religions and compare enlightenment paths of all cultures and beliefs, everything started to make so much sense. I was starting to think I was crazy because I was doing my research and seeing partial truths every where…and trying to place the pieces together. I was seeing things multi dimensional…as striving for enlightenment from multiple perspectives, realizing that there is no self, practicing separation and detachment from thoughts emotions and beliefs. and gaining a greater understanding as why things are the way they are…..I can honestly reflect now and see the times in my life where I was in different colors, I needed to be in all stages…none of them are wrong…they need to be there for our growth. Including when you strive for success and money and material items…you will never be fulfilled …and if you feel any kind of satisfaction it doesn’t last forever…happiness, inner peace and spirituality carries so much more weight …gives so much more satisfaction…than a large number in a bank account. I feel very aware of what is going on and I look forward to my continued growth. Thank you so much for all the hard work you do. It means a lot to the people here and it means a lot to me.
Hi Leo!
Love your stuff, I’ll take the course very soon, I need it.
You need to look into this falacy about global warming though.
Please let me know if you want som links to start out with.
I feel that I am bouncing between red and yellow in some way (a swiss cheese with wholes) and have been for a long time.
Any feedback on that, anyone?
Michael says: Of course as I don’t know you or what is going on in your head I would recommend you taking my word for this. But if you feel you are switching between red and yellow you’re probably on the orange/green border somewhere, where you go and when (in terms of higher/lower self) you switch more over either side of the border only you can figure this out.
George says: Could there possibly be a link between this model and Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs? The survival stage for example seemed very similar to Maslow’s Physiological stage.
Jeremy Cabrera says: So I wanted to say I was yellow, until you stated “yellow was orange” – indirect quote. Yet I (as a matter of fact) just today started thinking, I am a body, I am free, and I am conscious not only of that freedom, but of myself. Which immediately pushed me into the thought…Well then am I dreaming! And then, How can I make it better? + I also realized that people have the power to choose, but are labeled “mentally ill” amongst other things … when they give up that power. Its really not their fault, but that power is what makes the world go round. So is this not pushing Yellow? As I’m starting to recognize that this power is non negotiable and that, Not to decide is to decide it gave me an appretiation for the video on, Acing life – the one rule – that immediately registerd and I kicked myself afterward thinking about all the shit I could have accomplished in the following 21/2 hours. Yet I know its progress not perfection. Anyway TY I’m new to your work, and very exited just to know I’ve found a true like minded, and kindred spirit! I’ve got a lot to catch up on! Again THANK YOU!
Leo Gura says: You’ll know that you’re in Yellow when the majority of your time goes towards thinking about creating systems that shape the world, versus thinking about your own petty problems and survival needs. Yellow is systemic thinking!
Ilias says: Hey Leo and everyone else that sees this.
I would categorize myself partly into beeing turquoise and green however most of the time that I enjoy listening to your episodes a good chunk of me becomes yellow.
Now my question is (because I know that I am a spiritual person, not enlightend.. but hey ) whether or not I believe in absolute truth or not?
Do I believe in absolute truth if I for myself see something as the best explanation of something and that others can see this as wrong but I came to the conclusion that this thing is for me the best explanation? I see this explanation as very rich in perspektives.. the explanation is very detailed and continues to answer any doubt of mine towards this explanation.
And the explanation does even challenges other explanations to bring furth a better or atleast equal explanation.
I guess I answered it myself.
And to give you guys someone that I immediately thought of beeing fully turquoise: Hamza Yousef
Kaz says: Would Ghandi and Mandela fall into the Turquoise stage?
Leo, I think you may be pretty close too….Actualized.org is certainly wholistic and it’s certainly global and it’s certainly actualisation..all of which is Turquoise, wholistic global actualisation….so maybe….just a thought anyway
Leo Gura says: Gandhi yes.
I would not characterize myself a Turquoise. I have much growing to do before that.
Saikiran B Hebbar says: hey Leo, first of all i really liked the way u started with those colors and differentiated the way of ones thinking.i feel all those colors are in perfect order but i am not satisfied with the explanations of the last color and i am really searching for the good end to all of these battles in my head! great talk you have given,thank you.
“The hippies are above you” I love this Leo – you capture and distill the essence of everything so succinctly!
Brilliant!
Thanks,
Bren
Louis says: Hi Leo, can you elaborate a bit more on the Developmental axes? As in how can we find out which color we are in for separate axes? This would be a very useful tool for personal development. Thanks for all the sick videos!
Leo Gura says: This is a challenging topic to cover on Youtube because it requires hours of discussion. A part 2 to this video is on the to-do list with more discussion of various nuances and application.
Louis says: Excellent, thanks for taking the time to reply. And thank you for all the inspiration, you have genuinely changed my entire outlook on life. But talk is cheap, so fuck that shit. Peace!
aiwlys says: Love the video. It explains so much. I just cant wait for the next ones. I have improved so much since Ive started listening to you. In some ways I can even see myself yellowish Keep doing what you doing, its great!
Btw. What do you think would hapen if whole worlds society turn at least green or yellow? Is it even possible? And when? Are all people mentally capable to progress so much? We have so much possibilities now to almost create heaven on earth on this planet thanks to the science, but instead we have mess..
Leo Gura says: It will certainly happen with time. Or… we kill ourselves trying.
Elisabeth says: I am pretty sure I moved from blue to orange in the past two years, perhaps getting shades of green sometimes already. But I deffinitelly haven’t mastered orange (“being the director of my own life”) yet, so I hope I can get through it without getting stuck…
Gave me some perspective on the interaction with one of my friends now, who is deffinitelly tapping into yellow already (though I think it is still more “fake it till you make it” with her). Like you said, very relativistic, and lost in thoughts sometimes. Thought she had to catch up with me in the rational thinking area
Lina says: Love your videos! You blow my mind every single time and I’m so grateful for all your hard work and dedication. The funny thing is, as I was watching this video I realised that I’ve seen this model before,many years ago when I was so interested in psychology, but it did not make an impact on me then the way it did now. It all makes sense!
My brain is still going, still processing, just love that!
Cristina says: Leo thanks for sharing this info. And most of all for revealing Ken Wilber. I am gonna definitely follow him, it’s time to move to the next level
Dora says: Hi Leo,
Thanks for your explanation on this model of Psychological Evolution.
I knew about it since December 2015, thanks to Tony Robbins. I liked your deep explanation here!!!! You are wonderful!!!! I enjoy your videos a lot!!! You are doing a great contribution to us!!!!
Thanks again
Dora
alex says: Hey Leo and fellow actualized users,
Do any of you guys know how mr. Graves made this model? Like from where did he get the data?
Perhaps you have a link?
Leo Gura says: From what I recall, he interviewed 1000s of people who came and went through this university. Then analyzing his notes.
Alex says: Interesting Leo. I just found this site a week ago and I’ve already been watching several videos. I already heard of the Graves Model and I understand that your time to speak all about it in detail is limited, but I just wanted to make clear some possible misunderstandings some people have about this.
Here are some information gained from listening to Spiral Dynamics Integral, the audiobook as spoken by Don Beck as well as the podcasts on The Graves Model from the site Personality Hacker. As well as other articles scattered all over the Internet.
1. I think there was a lack of emphasis on separating the essence of a level with the examples. Orange for example, is not necessarily entrepreneurs and scientists but also people who are in the mindset of risk taking, the worldview of limitless potential for themselves and success, not necessarily in money but whatever they define success as for themselves.
Blue is not necessarily all religion as Don Beck mentions. There could be an orange Christianity (Look at how some well known pastors emphasize material success as something God wants to give as a gift to you.) There could be a green Christianity, that doesn’t rigidly discriminate towards other religions and accept them as God’s people anyway. There is a podcast on how Christianity plays into this model on the site Personality Hacker if you want more.
2. I think there was a lack of emphasis on modern examples with older more ancient in human history examples. The first 3 levels can be actually be seen in humanity today. The first level beige can be seen in major accidents like 9/11 or a plane crash where people try to survive or it can be seen as an infant who is not really developed enough to focus on anything other than just surviving yet.
Purple’s superstition for example can also be applied to places such as baseball teams, where a player can have a lucky cap that will help their team win. A really kind of tribal kind of thinking with their group in their sports team.
Red can also be seen in teenage rebelliousness rather than just criminals, where they are apt to try to “take over their independence” over their parents’ rules.
3. There was not much emphasis on a healthy contextualized stage. I agree, getting to higher levels is good in the long run, but in the short term, it might be a needed thing. Red for example would be a really good stage to be in when there’s a time where you really have to stand up for yourself and rebel when people are treating you cruelly.
neander squirrel says: Hi Leo,
I am deeply appreciated for your work you doing here. I’m listening your mp3s since two years and I can honestly say, you are one of the best sources of information on my journey towards the truth. Enough of ego pleasing. Lol. You might have just skipped my comment by now
I recently started blogging and I thought I share the concept of Spiral Dynamics with the people. I would like to ask your permission to use your video as a basis for my blog. I might make some money with it, as I am blogging on steemit.com. Money is not my reason for blogging just a nice side effect
So my question is: Can I use your video (some part as transcription) for my blog, even I may profit out of it? I would give you credit of course.
Have you tried steemit yourself?
Thank you for your answer in advance!
Charles King says: There seems to be many misconceptions about tribal hunter-gathers. I don’t remember the Frenchman’s name but he did a study of the Indians of either central or south America before the European influence. He found they were sovereign individuals who were not controlled by the tribe but basically free individuals.
The chief in a tribe was always easily recognized by a stranger because the chief was always the poorest person in the tribe because he spent his time working for the tribe. He was also a good orator because he often spoke to the tribe giving them good advice. Also he was a good arbitrator because he settled disputes among individuals.
This harmony was made possible because the individual was given the right to violence. They did not organize a social system instead their system of socialization was a natural one not having any fking organization manipulating and controlling the individual. Any individual could kill the chief if the fker tried to organize power over the people. Respect, integrity, peace and safety came to the fore because neither the individual or the chief was likely to mess with others when punishment was swift and sure.
Nature seeks balance and systems created by organization minded peoples always have great swings of the pendulum and tend to get stuck at the extreme dark side like we are now experiencing. Natural systems such as unorganized systems of sovereign individuals have short swings of the pendulum and tend to walk the middle road. Natural systems will correct themselves when people get out of way and keep their damn hands off them.
Charles King says: I recall also it was found that the Indians had both peace time chiefs and war chiefs. War chiefs were given much power as the head of an organization (the warriors) because organization was necessary as it is stronger than the individual. But soon as war was over they returned to a peace time chiefs. Those tribes seem more advanced than modern civilization as far as freedom, spirituality and sense of community. Also, hunter-gathers spend about fours hours a day working doing what we today consider recreation (hunting, fishing, etc.). They spent the rest of the day with family and friends and holding their kids on their laps.i would say they were pretty advanced psychologically.
So called civilization is devolution.
rami anabtawi says: Yes Charles! thank you for bringing that up.
I hope Leo comes to that understanding and corrects this misunderstanding as it could hinder personal growth work for a lot of people that come to these sites.
Have you read Daniel Quinns work? (Ishmael, Story of B, My Ishmael, Beyond Civilization)?
Grape says: I don’t know where the original source of knowledge came from for Spiral Dynamics, but if not from the esoteric teachings on Chakras it must at least have been ‘divinely’ inspired from the same source. Here’s an attempt at mapping the spiral onto the Chakras. I know Chakra 3 looks a bit complex spiral dynamic-wise, but what can I say, it is said the seat of the ego resides in the solar plexus!
Chakra 1 (earth) : (spiral) beige
Chakra 2 (water) : purple
Chakra 3 (Fire): Red (in negative) Blue (neutral) and Orange (in positive pole)
Chakra 4 (Love): Green
Chakra 5 (Sound): Green/yellow
Chakra 6 (light): Yellow/turquoise
Chakra 7 (Self): Turquoise
Grape says: I’m not convinced by this idea that people can deliberately move up the spiral. It’s unrealistic to think that you can zoom up the spiral from blue to yellow, even in a lifetime. More likely, apparent rapid movements up the spiral pertain to younger individuals who are still maturing psychologically and naturally moving up the spiral until they find the natural resting place in this lifetime which is more in line with their true inner sense than the inculturation they have received to date.
So Leo, for example, I would suggest that your orange traits were probably a developmental stage you passed through on the way to your natural homeostasis in yellow, which feels more like your true ground of being – as demonstrated by your affinity to psychology, philosophy and complex systems of thought from a young age, even if you weren’t constantly living from that level (because you weren’t surrounded by other yellows probably but were being heavily influenced by the proliferation of oranges in society).
The overall point I’m trying to make is that mindsets do not change in a blink of an eye – not if you are truly bought into any given stage. They are only likely to be breezed through if these levels are just a pits stop on the way to your true resting place at a level I believe is probably pre-determined (if you like, by previous births).
Rami Anabtawi says: I understand the purple stage but the example was a horrible incorrect one. What you were calling purple is probably the stage that sits on top of all the rest – but because its so high up its misunderstood.
I don’t really know what a better example would be, but probably cults that are way out there would be a better example of purple…
I think this model traces the psychological development after the advent of totalitarian agriculture (sedentary disconnected working lifestyle) 10,000 years ago. Everything before it was so far up the model that its misunderstood.
Max Raoy Gron says: I could always see Leo was at stage green and some orange and a bit of beige (e.g. concerned with no money and deriving happiness from it). Since I’m pessimistic, religious, spiritual, eco-friendly, caring of all of us, surviving, wanting food, warmth and comfort, and success, luxury and money I think I’m a bit beige, with some red, lots of blue, a bit of orange and a lot of green, I’m trying not to be red and that’s hard, but I think I’ll move to yellow since I do systems thinking, I’m strategic, I think complicated things in shades of grey. So this’ll be the change I was looking for.